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  File        : /Steve G. Apodaca Tapia (sgapodaca@...)/Arbol de Gary.pdf 
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  Description : My Direct Ancestors 

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sgapodaca 
 







Valparaiso, Zacatecas

How do you relate those surnames to that region? If I
may ask?  I have Castro in my mother's line, but I
have only been able to trace it back to Vicente Castro
around the mid 1800's and he lived in El Castro, Sain
Alto, Zacatecas.  

Perhaps he came from Valparaiso, that could be a
possibility.  

Dora
--- Joseph Puentes  wrote:

> Is anyone in the group studying in the Valparaiso,
> Zacatecas area?
> 
> if so might you have these surnames in your family:
> Castro, Garcia, 
> Duenas, Martinez, and/or Arevalo?
> 
> joseph
> 
> 
> 



		
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Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! 
http://my.yahoo.com 
 


Valparaiso, Zacatecas

Is anyone in the group studying in the Valparaiso, Zacatecas area?

if so might you have these surnames in your family: Castro, Garcia,
Duenas, Martinez, and/or Arevalo?


joseph



SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>

In the early 1700's the Spanish scholars declared the new world
Indians as members of the "human race" and therefore, worthy of catholic soul
conversion. This started taking effect in the Spanish new world colony records
shortly thereafter, resulting in church record alteration and an emphasis on
baptism.

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

I read somewhere that the reason the race stops being documented was 
a result of the Mexican Independence. Much like the American 
Independence in which "all men are created equal", the Mexican 
Independence established similar laws.  Thus, it became illegal to 
note the person's race.  The year when the law was put into practice 
will vary from parrish to parrish, but, it would be in the early 
1820's.

Maria Cortez

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
> 
> 
> alice wissing wrote:
> 
> > Alberto,
> >  
> > There is a table in the book "Governance & Society in Colonial 
Mexico 
> > - Chihuahua in the Eighteenth Century" that contains the number 
of 
> > baptisms occurring in El Sagrario Parish broken down by race.  
In 1780 
> > there were 66 mulatos, and in 1790 there were 0.  It's as if 
they 
> > disappeared during a decade.
> 
> One thing I've noticed and seem to think it had reference to the 
> struggle for Independance from Spain. . . But at a

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>

You are correct about assimilation. Early terms were sambos (black and
white) and zambos (black and Indian or mestizo). These two terms became mulatto
and later raza in order to establish ethnic pride after independence from
Spain.

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

In a message dated 1/21/2005 1:37:17 PM Central Standard Time, makas@nc.rr.com writes:

One thing I've noticed and seem to think it had reference to the struggle for Independance from Spain. . . But at a certain time period the records in Jalisco seem to stop indicating people by race. Those that were mestizo, mulato, espanol, indio etc are seen in the records as just people. I'm not sure of the date but somewhere in the early 1800's this absence of referring to race occured. Maybe what you are seeing is a gradual move from the "importance" of establishing race to the more politically correct or "preference" of the people to not have race play such an important part. Just a thought.

I did a large paper for my masters degree about African slavery throughout Latin America.  One of the things that stood out in my mind was that the "whitening" of Latin America occurred shortly after United States's attained Independence.  The general feeling was that the reason U.S. was doing alot better

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

Hello Guillermo.

Well, I do not agree with your point that there are very few blacks 
in Mexico. Blacks did not dissapear, they just melted with indios and 
espanoles and formed today's mexican society. If you go to any town 
in Mexico and look around, you'll find lots of people that have small 
traces from these ancestors. And I'm not just talking about the color 
of the skin, but also of the facial features and body complexion. 

On my personal experience, I have seen lots of baptisms of both free 
and slave mulattos in the Zacoalco, Jalisco area. Today, you don't 
see mulatos there, but believe me, if you look closely, you'll find 
them. Heck, even myself, I look more white than black or indian, but 
I am always aware (and proud) of my recently proven black heritage. 
(Maybe that explains my slightly wide nose). Also, maybe Joseph can 
confirm this: my sister lives in Winston-Salem, NC. Most of the 
Mexican immigrants in that area are from the state of Guerrero. I 
visited NC once

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE





alice wissing wrote:

Alberto,
 
There is a table in the book "Governance & Society in
Colonial Mexico - Chihuahua in the Eighteenth Century" that contains
the number of baptisms occurring in El Sagrario Parish broken down by
race.  In 1780 there were 66 mulatos, and in 1790 there were 0.  It's
as if they disappeared during a decade.

One thing I've noticed and seem to think it had reference to the
struggle for Independance from Spain. . . But at a certain time period
the records in Jalisco seem to stop indicating people by race. Those
that were mestizo, mulato, espanol, indio etc are seen in the records
as just people. I'm not sure of the date but somewhere in the early
1800's this absence of referring to race occured. Maybe what you are
seeing is a gradual move from the "importance" of establishing race to
the more politically correct or "preference" of the people to not have
race play such an important part. Just a thought.

One thing we can be

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

Alberto,
 
There is a table in the book "Governance & Society in Colonial Mexico - Chihuahua in the Eighteenth Century" that contains the number of baptisms occurring in El Sagrario Parish broken down by race.  In 1780 there were 66 mulatos, and in 1790 there were 0.  It's as if they disappeared during a decade.  One thing we can be certain about, it was not socially and economically advantageous for our ancestors to identify themselves as mulatos.  Maybe the priests realized that and gradually phased out using the term.  

Joseph, if you're out there, many years ago I tried telling a "sister" I worked with how I thought I was black because of my frizzy hair, and it really annoyed her.  A word of advice to everyone:  Be careful about flaunting your newfound heritage around blacks - they could think you are ridiculing them. 
 
Alice 

Alberto Duarte wrote:

Note:
I have a historical event book from Jerez, and there
is an article where they were selling black and
mulatto

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

When I was in Zacatecas, our tour guide, who took
us to my grandmother's hometown of Jerez, looked mulatto.  But I wasn't
about to tell him that he looked mulatto.  BTW, Al, which ancestor bought
slaves?  Marge V.:)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:17
PM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] SALUDOS TO
EVERYONE

Note:
I have a historical event book from Jerez, and
there
is an article where they were selling black and
mulatto slaves on
the open market (early 1700s). In
fact, I believe one of my ancestors
buying them.

Question: What happened to all these slaves?  When
I
went to Jerez, I didn't see a single black!  I believe
they were
assimilated in to the population.

Any
comments?

Alberto.


--- alice wissing
wrote:

> Esperanza,
> 

> I'm curious where you read about the blacks
> outnumbering the
Spaniards in Zacatecas.  I've got
> really weird hair and have

Coyote

My understanding is that when a child was taken to the priests to be baptised, it was determined by him whether the child was mulato, moreno blanco, etc.  This might have been more of the case in ranchos where it wasn't so important to have ethnic purity, as they were peones, who were never going to "be someone" anyway.  It was much more important in affluent lines to know exactly what the blood lines were -

 

Esperanza

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

Alice,

 

When I became interested in geneology, I began to read everything I could about Zacatecas.  I wish I could tell you where I got my information from, but I can't.  What I do know for certainty is that the silver mines depended on the labor of the imported Africans because the Indigenous people were dying quickly of disease.  I have actually met people from Zacatecas that look African, so I suspect there remains pockets of them throughout the state.  I believe they were from the capitol - Zacatecas.

 

Esperanza

Books: Blacks in Mexico

Alberto I know this is outside of our geographical area but I found
this Dissertation that might offer some clues about the subject in
general:




Record 1 of 1 in Dissertation Abstracts 1997-2000




TI: FROM SLAVES TO CITIZENS: BLACKS AND MULATOES IN QUERETARO AT THE
END OF THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY (SPANISH TEXT, MEXICO)

AU: DE-LA-SERNA-HERRERA-JUAN-MANUEL

DN: PHD

DD: 1999

SN: TULANE-UNIVERSITY (0235)

AD: GREENLEAF-RICHARD

PG: 209

LA: SPANISH

AB: This study endeavors to view Mexican society from 1750 to 1821
through the perspective of one of its lower status racial
groups—blacks. It addresses such themes as race, slavery and
the free population. An effort is also made at understanding the effect
of the interaction of the social, demographic economic, and political
forces upon the various sectors within the society. Each of these
questions is viewed at different points in time in an effort to gauge
change. The black's experience within the Mexican community is examined
at the local

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

Note:
I have a historical event book from Jerez, and there
is an article where they were selling black and
mulatto slaves on the open market (early 1700s). In
fact, I believe one of my ancestors buying them.

Question: What happened to all these slaves?  When I
went to Jerez, I didn't see a single black!  I believe
they were assimilated in to the population.

Any comments?

Alberto.


--- alice wissing  wrote:

> Esperanza,
>  
> I'm curious where you read about the blacks
> outnumbering the Spaniards in Zacatecas.  I've got
> really weird hair and have been traced with
> certainty to a few coyotes and a black, all from
> Durango, which is next to Zacatecas.  I've never met
> another Mexican with hair as strange as mine -
> coarse, dark, wavy, and it won't hold a curl.  I can
> even forecast the weather with this hair.  Once I
> told everyone it was going to rain and it was sunny
> out.  Nobody believed me and then it rained that
> night.  Sometimes I think God gave

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

Esperanza,
 
I'm curious where you read about the blacks outnumbering the Spaniards in Zacatecas.  I've got really weird hair and have been traced with certainty to a few coyotes and a black, all from Durango, which is next to Zacatecas.  I've never met another Mexican with hair as strange as mine - coarse, dark, wavy, and it won't hold a curl.  I can even forecast the weather with this hair.  Once I told everyone it was going to rain and it was sunny out.  Nobody believed me and then it rained that night.  Sometimes I think God gave me this hair so I'd always have something to do.
 
Alice

latina1955@... wrote:
Actually, for a while, blacks outnumbered Spaniards in Zacatecas as well because they were being used in the silver mines that dot the whole state.  Did you know that Michoacan had an enormous amount of Africans there early on as well? 
 
Both my husband (from Michoacan) and myself would bet that we have African blood running through our veins - primarily because of the very

Coyote



Hijola. . .we're all coming out of the closet. I've already told a
number of the "brothers" and "sisters" at work that I might be their
cousin. I think if a lot more people were made aware of all the
different ethnic bloodlines that run through them maybe this whole
thing of ethnic superiority would not be so prevalent.



I have a question about "Coyote." After getting my
mtDNA that traces my mom's mom's mom's side which I know comes from
Chihuahua, but there are rumors that the line might be from one of the
Atotonilco's in Jalisco. . .well anyway, after finding those results
take me back to Africa as my country of origin, I saw that one of
paternal lines might as well take me back to Africa as my Lugo line out
of Tepetongo was Coyote, Mestizo, and Espanola.



so my question is how did they determine these classifications? was it
that they took a DNA sample and waited for the results before making
the final entries? or was there a discerning Father that would have a
good look at

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

Actually, for a while, blacks outnumbered Spaniards in Zacatecas as well because they were being used in the silver mines that dot the whole state.  Did you know that Michoacan had an enormous amount of Africans there early on as well? 

 

Both my husband (from Michoacan) and myself would bet that we have African blood running through our veins - primarily because of the very nappy hair that both sides of the relatives have.

 

Esperanza

Books by Esteban Valdez of Totatiche

I wish I could say that I am related to the Valdez
from Teotaltiche. My Grandfather was from Zitácuaro,
Michoacán. I haven't trace enough to know where they
came from before Michoacán. I know there is a large
Valdez family both in Zacatecas and Veracurz, but I
haven't on the Valdez from Michoacán. Anyone who has
more information, please let me know. I will check
this info in the meantime.

Guillermo Valdez


--- aajay1073  wrote:

> 
> Hey Victor,
> 
> The books you mention are actually the ones I have. 
> Sorry, I didn't 
> know the names but I recognize them.
> 
> The three books I currently have are:
> - Los Valdes de Totatiche
>      {I descend from the Valdes family, Joseph
> Leandro Valdez Lopez 
> and Maria Josepha Grano Covarrubias}
> - Estirpe Sacerdotal Campos-Jara
>      {I descend from the Campos family, Pedro Leon
> Gaeta Sierra and 
> Maria de la Luz Campos Huerta.}
> - El Sacerdocio Ministerial - Singular Don a la
> Parroquia de Totatiche
>      {I descend

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

We definetly shouldn't rule out the presence of blacks
in México (and we might have some blood too!), but we
have to be aware that blacks were brought to México at
first when Spaniards arrive to Veracruz. This is why
we find most black mexicans in the eastern coast of
México (Gulf of Mexico). As soon as they started
conquering the indians, the need for black labor
became unnecessary. I would not question the veracity
of Vaughn's assertion about black outnumbering
spaniards (maybe at the beginning of the colony), but
I doubt it is true in present day México. If I'm not
mistaken (correct me if I am wrong), México and
Argentina and the two latin american countries with
the smallest black population.

Guillermo Valdez.


--- alice wissing  wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> I've always wondered if any families had haciendas
> in the Los Altos area and what differentiates a
> ranch from a hacienda.  Does anyone out there know
> how I would go about finding that information?  
>  
> I

www.afromexico.com

cool! glad you had a great time and thanks much for the website. here is
the bibliography from that website:


Aguirre Beltrán, Gonzalo, La población negra de México, 1519-1810:
estudio etnohistórico (México: Ediciones Fuente Cultural, 1946).


Aguirre Beltrán, Gonzalo, Cuijla: esbozo etnográfico de un pueblo negro,
(México: Fondo de Cultura Económica, 1958).


Althoff, Daniel , "Afro-Mestizo Speech from Costa Chica, Guerrero: From
Cuaji to Cuijla," (Language Problems and Language Planning, 18(3),
1994), p.242-256.


Carroll, Patrick J., Blacks in Colonial Veracruz: Race, Ethnicity, and
Regional Development, (Austin: University of Texas Press, 1991).


Cruz Carretero, Sagrario , Identidad en una comunidad afromestiza del
centro de Veracruz: La población de Mata Clara, (Tésis de Licenciatura,
Fundación Universidad de las Américas).


Davidson, David M., "Negro Slave Control and Resistance in colonial
Mexico, 1519-1650," In Maroon Societies: Rebel Slave Communities in the
Ameri

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

Hello,
 
I've always wondered if any families had haciendas in the Los Altos area and what differentiates a ranch from a hacienda.  Does anyone out there know how I would go about finding that information? 
 
I stumbled across the Bobby Vaughn website some time ago and found it fascinating.  I think it was only in Mexico City where the blacks outnumbered the Spaniards.  
 
Thanks,
 
Alice

sgapodaca wrote:


I hope everyone is doing ok. I just came back from a trip to Jalisco
and wanted to let you know that I had a lot of fun. Of course, I used
some of my time there interviewing my relatives and visiting the
Zacoalco's notaria for records from the 1700's. Soon, I'll post an
updated family tree on the files section.

By the way, the conversation about spanish ancestors and indios
ancestors is past already, but I just wanted to remind you that we
must not forget our african roots. According to researcher Bobby
Vaughn, black population outnumbered spaniards during most of the
c

SALUDOS TO EVERYONE

I hope everyone is doing ok. I just came back from a trip to Jalisco 
and wanted to let you know that I had a lot of fun. Of course, I used 
some of my time there interviewing my relatives and visiting the 
Zacoalco's notaria for records from the 1700's. Soon, I'll post an 
updated family tree on the files section.

By the way, the conversation about spanish ancestors and indios 
ancestors is past already, but I just wanted to remind you that we 
must not forget our african roots. According to researcher Bobby 
Vaughn, black population outnumbered spaniards during most of the 
colonial times. Have a look at this page: www.afromexico.com I, and 
probably many of you, have found mulatos, coyotes, and similar terms 
on some of our lines, which means that we also have african roots.

Is anyone aware of a book called "Haciendas y Estancias de Jalisco"? 
Well, on a trip to Guadalajara, I got a copy of this book, and even 
though I haven't read it all, It has some interesting information on

Casetas de Jalisco

Can't promise anything, Joseph.  But with a little luck and a LOT of 
patience we might be able to get you one.  In the mean time, get 
yourself a nice drink and put that to rest.  :)



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
> For the following Ranchos in Jalisco:
> 
> Rancho de Animas
> Sauz de los Marquez
> El Salto or just Salto (formerly Salto de los Romeros I'm hoping)
> 
> I was hoping that the phone book that covers from Colotlan, Jalisco 
> including everything North to Tepetongo, Zacatecas would have those 
> phone numbers including others I'm sure I'd be interested in. I 
wish I 
> could get my hands on that phone book.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> joseph





Casetas de Jalisco

For the following Ranchos in Jalisco:



Rancho de Animas

Sauz de los Marquez

El Salto or just Salto (formerly Salto de los Romeros I'm hoping)



I was hoping that the phone book that covers from Colotlan, Jalisco
including everything North to Tepetongo, Zacatecas would have those
phone numbers including others I'm sure I'd be interested in. I wish I
could get my hands on that phone book.



thanks,



joseph





Victor Villarreal wrote:

Joseph,

What "casetas" are you most interested in?  

There is a chance that the information might be available or 
requested through Telmex.

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
  
thanks much for this information. I'm hoping to find out things 
    
like the 
  
phone numbers to the "cassetas" in the ranchos out in the country. 
    
I 
  
would very much like to find a source of phone books. I thought a 
    
Social 
  
organization of some sort might be able to help